We have all had toxic people dust us with their poison. Sometimes it’s more like a drenching. Difficult people are drawn to the reasonable ones and all of us have likely had (or have) at least one person in our lives who have us bending around ourselves like barbed wire in endless attempts to please them – only to never really get there.
Their damage lies in their subtlety and the way they can engender that classic response, ‘It’s not them, it’s me.’ They can have you questioning your ‘over-reactiveness’, your ‘oversensitivity’, your ‘tendency to misinterpret’. If you’re the one who’s continually hurt, or the one who is constantly adjusting your own behaviour to avoid being hurt, then chances are that it’s not you and it’s very much them.
Being able to spot their harmful behaviour is the first step to minimising their impact. You might not be able to change what they do, but you can change what you do with it, and any idea that toxic somebody in your life might have that they can get away with it.
There are plenty of things toxic people do to manipulate people and situations to their advantage. Here are 12 of them. Knowing them will help you to avoid falling under the influence:
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They’ll keep you guessing about which version of them you’re getting.
They’ll be completely lovely one day and the next you’ll be wondering what you’ve done to upset them. There often isn’t anything obvious that will explain the change of attitude – you just know something isn’t right. They might be prickly, sad, cold or cranky and when you ask if there’s something wrong, the answer will likely be ‘nothing’ – but they’ll give you just enough to let you know that there’s something. The ‘just enough’ might be a heaving sigh, a raised eyebrow, a cold shoulder. When this happens, you might find yourself making excuses for them or doing everything you can to make them happy. See why it works for them?
Stop trying to please them. Toxic people figured out a long time ago that decent people will go to extraordinary lengths to keep the people they care about happy. If your attempts to please aren’t working or aren’t lasting for very long, maybe it’s time to stop. Walk away and come back when the mood has shifted. You are not responsible for anybody else’s feelings. If you have done something unknowingly to hurt somebody, ask, talk about it and if need be, apologise. At any rate, you shouldn’t have to guess.
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They’ll manipulate.
If you feel as though you’re the only one contributing to the relationship, you’re probably right. Toxic people have a way of sending out the vibe that you owe them something. They also have a way of taking from you or doing something that hurts you, then maintaining they were doing it all for you. This is particularly common in workplaces or relationships where the balance of power is out. ‘I’ve left that six months’ worth of filing for you. I thought you’d appreciate the experience and the opportunity to learn your way around the filing cabinets.’ Or, ‘I’m having a dinner party. Why don’t you bring dinner. For 10. It’ll give you a chance to show off those kitchen skills. K?’
You don’t owe anybody anything. If it doesn’t feel like a favour, it’s not.
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They won’t own their feelings.
Rather than owning their own feelings, they’ll act as though the feelings are yours. It’s called projection, as in projecting their feelings and thoughts onto you. For example, someone who is angry but won’t take responsibility for it might accuse you of being angry with them. It might be as subtle as, ‘Are you okay with me?’ or a bit more pointed, ‘Why are you angry at me,’ or, ‘You’ve been in a bad mood all day.’
You’ll find yourself justifying and defending and often this will go around in circles – because it’s not about you. Be really clear on what’s yours and what’s theirs. If you feel as though you’re defending yourself too many times against accusations or questions that don’t fit, you might be being projected on to. You don’t have to explain, justify or defend yourself or deal with a misfired accusation. Remember that.
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They’ll make you prove yourself to them.
They’ll regularly put you in a position where you have to choose between them and something else – and you’ll always feel obliged to choose them. Toxic people will wait until you have a commitment, then they’ll unfold the drama. ‘If you really cared about me you’d skip your exercise class and spend time with me.’ The problem with this is that enough will never be enough. Few things are fatal – unless it’s life or death, chances are it can wait.
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They never apologise.
They’ll lie before they ever apologise, so there’s no point arguing. They’ll twist the story, change the way it happened and retell it so convincingly that they’ll believe their own nonsense.
People don’t have to apologise to be wrong. And you don’t need an apology to move forward. Just move forward – without them. Don’t surrender your truth but don’t keep the argument going. There’s just no point. Some people want to be right more than they want to be happy and you have better things to do than to provide fodder for the right-fighters.
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They’ll be there in a crisis but they’ll never ever share your joy.
They’ll find reasons your good news isn’t great news. The classics: About a promotion – ‘The money isn’t that great for the amount of work you’ll be doing.’ About a holiday at the beach – ‘Well it’s going to be very hot. Are you sure you want to go?’ About being made Queen of the Universe – ‘Well the Universe isn’t that big you know and I’m pretty sure you won’t get tea breaks.’ Get the idea? Don’t let them dampen you or shrink you down to their size. You don’t need their approval anyway – or anyone else’s for that matter.
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They’ll leave a conversation unfinished – and then they’ll go offline.
They won’t pick up their phone. They won’t answer texts or emails. And in between rounds of their voicemail message, you might find yourself playing the conversation or argument over and over in your head, guessing about the status of the relationship, wondering what you’ve done to upset them, or whether they’re dead, alive or just ignoring you – which can sometimes all feel the same. People who care about you won’t let you go on feeling rubbish without attempting to sort it out. That doesn’t mean you’ll sort it out of course, but at least they’ll try. Take it as a sign of their investment in the relationship if they leave you ‘out there’ for lengthy sessions.
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They’ll use non-toxic words with a toxic tone.
The message might be innocent enough but the tone conveys so much more. Something like, ‘What did you do today?’ can mean different things depending on the way it’s said. It could mean anything from ‘So I bet you did nothing – as usual,’ to ‘I’m sure your day was better than mine. Mine was awful. Just awful. And you didn’t even notice enough to ask.’ When you question the tone, they’ll come back with, ‘All I said was what did you do today,’ which is true, kind of, not really.
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They’ll bring irrelevant detail into a conversation.
When you’re trying to resolve something important to you, toxic people will bring in irrelevant detail from five arguments ago. The problem with this is that before you know it, you’re arguing about something you did six months ago, still defending yourself, rather than dealing with the issue at hand. Somehow, it just always seems to end up about what you’ve done to them.
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They’ll make it about the way you’re talking, rather than what you’re talking about.
You might be trying to resolve an issue or get clarification and before you know it, the conversation/ argument has moved away from the issue that was important to you and on to the manner in which you talked about it – whether there is any issue with your manner or not. You’ll find yourself defending your tone, your gestures, your choice of words or the way your belly moves when you breathe – it doesn’t even need to make sense. Meanwhile, your initial need is well gone on the pile of unfinished conversations that seems to grow bigger by the day.
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They exaggerate.
‘You always …’ ‘You never …’ It’s hard to defend yourself against this form of manipulation. Toxic people have a way of drawing on the one time you didn’t or the one time you did as evidence of your shortcomings. Don’t buy into the argument. You won’t win. And you don’t need to.
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They are judgemental.
We all get it wrong sometimes but toxic people will make sure you know it. They’ll judge you and take a swipe at your self-esteem suggesting that you’re less than because you made a mistake. We’re all allowed to get it wrong now and then, but unless we’ve done something that affects them nobody has the right to stand in judgement.
Knowing the favourite go-to’s for toxic people will sharpen your radar, making the manipulations easier to spot and easier to name. More importantly, if you know the characteristic signs of a toxic person, you’ll have a better chance of catching yourself before you tie yourself in double knots trying to please them.
Some people can’t be pleased and some people won’t be good for you – and many times that will have nothing to do with you. You can always say no to unnecessary crazy. Be confident and own your own faults, your quirks and the things that make you shine. You don’t need anyone’s approval but remember if someone is working hard to manipulate, it’s probably because they need yours. You don’t always have to give it but if you do, don’t let the cost be too high.
I am glad a subject of this intensity is addressed. The Toxic People are the same people guilty of Verbal and Emotional Abuse. The Words given, feelings that are felt for the worse to that person is classic V/E Abuse. One point I know that does make the 12 ideas more understandable is “Anytime a person can change the way a person feels or acts for the worse is guilty of the Verbal/Emotional Abuse. You might not see it on the outside but you will feel it. UGH!
I read this and I see the same symptoms of Verbal and Emotional Abuse. I noticed one point that I have sums up to the 12 things to look for in Toxic People. Anytime someone can change the way a person acts or feels for the worst is classic Verbal and Emotional abuse. The type that is not seen but felt for the rest of their lives. Classic Abuse!
My fiance is like this I felt it was all my fault till I read this. I know when I male a mistake and I apologize but she says don’t apologize I’d won’t to hear sorry I hay that word but now it males sense thank you this helped me so much.
You’re very welcome Chris. I’m pleased the article has helped.
My mother is most toxic person I’ve ever been around. She has all 12 characteristics you listed. Maybe, that’s why I will be done real fast with anyone that smell toxic somehow…
I read this and I see the same symptoms of Verbal and Emotional Abuse. I noticed one point that I have sums up to the 12 things to look for in Toxic People. Anytime someone can change the way a person acts or feels for the worst is classic Verbal and Emotional abuse. The type that is not seen but felt for the rest of their lives. Classic Abuse!
I can relate to you saying this about your Mother.My daughter is the Toxic one for me.I want to give you a pat on the back for being able to state that about you Mother.Because many people have a hard time calling close family members out on their behavior.
You are right, this is not easy to accept. I have wished otherwise for so long.
Once I realized the negative impact on my whole life, my serenity, self love and self respect, it was clear that I had choose Me, to Be Me and the best version of myself above all. I really don’t expect anything anymore. By separating myself from her and let her be, I am able to distance myself emotionally. It makes all the difference because it is the hope for a change, the expectation and that emotional bond which are so damaging.
Kim I can relate with you. My daughter has used and abused me since she was 16. Started with drugs,dropping from school, stealing from us. She stole all my jewelry that was given to me by my parents and brothers and took it to pown shop to get drugs.she would call me or come by only when she is in trouble or need me to pay her bills. 18 years she has been doing that,never said I am,I will pay you back or I feel bad that I have done that. As soon as I tell her what she has done to me she would get angry and hang up on me. Next day she would talk to me like nothing happened. She would call me to go store with her only to turn around and have me pay for her things. But I did it because of my little grandson. She was coming around with him and that’s all I cared, see him was true pleasure. She stoped using drugs,got job and everything was good for her.Couple years ago she meet new guy and had baby with him and everything has changed. He made her quit her job,he is not employeed ether.living of food stamps and child SSI.I started paying for her bills,food and gas for car, because I wanted children to have wster and electricity,then i said no more she turned around and told me that I am toxic and she don’t want me around. It is very hard when your own child use you all your life and then turn around and tells you that you’re bad person. She won’t even have me see my grandchildren. .sad
Hi Sad Momma,
I would be spending all my money on retaining a lawyer to fight to see my grand babies now. You sound like a kind and warm soul who would do anything for anyone. You have been affected by these toxic fumes. I hope you get to see your grandbabies soon!!!
Thank you Car in the Star. I love my children,I love people in general. It make me happy when I can help others.
I was thinking same,to get lawyer and sue her for grandparents rights. I miss my grandsons and I know they miss me.
Thank you ladies, my heart weep I miss my grad babies so much
I feel like you did your job though. The kids are okay. I have three big sisters and have done sell the work and have no rewards “” I mean we do things to be good and it seems selfish to want more. Good hon mom😊.
I feel like you did your job though. The kids are okay. I have three big sisters and have done sell the work and have no rewards “” I mean we do things to be good and it seems selfish to want more. Good hon mom😊.
Turenne I’m so sorry about your mother, but you are not alone. I completely understand here. My mom told me Jesus was ashamed of me. If that’s not toxic I don’t know what is. It’s taken me a long time to realize that HE loves me even if my mom is messed up. Blessings to those of you who have toxic people in your lives.
Ty for toxic people’s assessment. It put some sanity back in my life….
jeez. we’re you watching my life for the last god only knows how many years???
each point is so incredibly accurate and pin point precise to what is happening in my life with my family right now.
I have felt like I have Been the problem with no solution but this explains everything.
Same thing with my family always has been long asi can remember my whole life
This is a co-worker. I have a great team and one toxic person. Makes it so difficult to face going to work when you are a manager and have the follow the appropriate disciplinary steps. This toxic person makes the team not so grand and no matter what we do, we aren’t doing it right. Requires my supervisor and myself to turn things positive so she can see it in another light.
That is great that you realize this. I work in an environment where my immediate supervisor is toxic. She caused the lady who had the job before her to lose it. I was next in line for the position but realized that my fate would then be the same as my friends and moved to the side for her to take the position. Thinking this would appease her. It has not, she continually denigrates me to anyone who will listen. And upper management has yet to figure her out. I am preparing my exit strategy. Again, It is great that you have pinpointed the issue. So many do not. And that is why so much havoc insues.
This is completely someone I work with. One day you are best mates and then you come back after a weekend and you get no hello’s not nothing. I try and maintain professionalism by constantly saying good morning and good night, but all I get is grunted at. I have thought about asking her what I have done wrong but I know that I haven’t done anything. She is also the type of person who always has drama in her life. She is never happy unless there is turmoil. A conversation is always around her and if you talk about yourself for 5 seconds she tunes out until it’s her turn to talk about herself again. After reading your article it only just confirms for me that it isn’t me that has the issue that it is in fact her. Unfortunately I know who she really is.
I had a supervisor tell me that my behavior was toxic I didn’t understand what that meant. I was hurt by her comment. After reading your post I find that it wasn’t me who was toxic it was her. Get this I have a new supervisor who is sweet as pie but she is just as toxic as my last supervisor but in a different kind of way, and they both are born on the same day, same month ??
WOW this is my mother to the letter! Growing up i was in counseling so much. It was identified what the problem was, who it was. It took me years to admit they were right! To this day she is still abusing me, manipulating me, telling lies to people about me. The worst part, i have to take care of her. I’m doing it out of obligation. Nothing more
I think there is a really big problem with terms like ‘toxic person.’ It smacks of blaming people for things which are quite likely due to poor mental health and wellbeing. On the basis of this list, I could basically dismiss my mother as a ‘toxic person’ – the reality is that she has a severe anxiety disorder. Similarly, my first boyfriend and I were both guilty of many things on this list; sadly, our relationship was toxic as despite pure intentions, we were unable to express our love for each other and had no insight into the the things that were making it impossible. Once again, high levels of anxiety, some depression, poor self-esteem and in my case, bad parenting and domestic circumstances were the real issue. I find myself thinking: ‘Actually, how dare you just dismiss people as ‘toxic’?!’ If someone is showing a lack of compassion towards you and doesn’t seem to have the resources to spare for you, there is a good chance they are actually unwell and in a lot of pain.
Janet there is more to toxic people than a lack of compassion. They deliberately undermine the self-esteem of others around them as a way to control and diminish those people. They lie, they cheat, they manipulate, they abuse – all the while with devastating consequences to the people around them. You will see from the comments the damage they do. We can all do some of these things some of the time. It is a question of degree. With toxic people, their harmful behaviour is intense and consistent. They do damage – serious damage – and they don’t care. They have a total lack of remorse and lack of insight into their destructive ways and the impact they have on people. If people don’t have resources to spare for you, that’s one thing, but actively using the resources they have to deliberately undermine and diminish another person is altogether different. The behaviour is toxic, quite literally, in the way it contaminates the self-esteem and self-concept of an otherwise healthy person. Toxic people create toxic environments which have measurable neurological and physiological consequences to the people they target. Their impact is very real and very damaging and their lack of insight or concern is one of the worst things about it. Here is an article that explains that in more depth https://www.heysigmund.com/toxic-stress/.
Thank you! Now I am able to clearly identify toxic people. I have few of them draining my head all the time. I am the type who’ll always try to please and maintain the good vibes, apologize, greet, call for reconciliation and so on. NOW I AM GOING TO STOP because it’s mentally draining. I really have to let them go if they so wish!
I am a male and I am toxic. I have had many a counselor’s session … I have tried really hard to “not be toxic.” I believe it is in my blood. I believe my spouse is toxic making our situation very difficult. We are committed to one another but our life is very difficult. Love does that. I will make an effort based on your article though .. I will admit to her that I am toxic! Let’s see what happens!
This article is 100 correct!!! There is a coworker/ friend who was upset because I didn’t answer her phone calls While in the hospital. I had just given birth to my daughter. She then sent me a series of texts implying that I was ignoring her. That was the final straw for me. After reading this article, I realized that I put up with her nonsense for far too long
I was just googling and came across this site and everything was written hit the nail on the head for me I was just in a relationship like this it’s like he tried to find everything wrong and I started loosing me trying to make him happy and I was being hurt constantly disrespectful the last straw him calling me stupid it hurt and he was right for wasting time with him he’s calling and leaving messages that doesn’t mean anything I will forgive in time but I can’t talk or see him right now cause I’m not ready and I dobby think I ever will be
My mom attempted suicide a week and a half after I had brain surgery for a subdural hematoma. She became horribly depressed about four years after my dad died. She would vacillate between extreme generosity and kindness and extreme criticism and judgment. It was so hard to be her only nearby support. She was very reclusive. I think she had Borderline Personality Disorder. If I had understood her anxiety issues better, I might have had more coping skills. Now she has passed on (she chose to die through Hospice when she had pneumonia). I still feel guilt on a daily basis for having failed her. I wish that I could train my brain to move on and to avoid thinking about these past issues that I can’t change.
Pam even the most compassionate person has a limit to the emotional support they can provide when they are being torn down in circumstances where there is no clear reason. You can’t know what you don’t know. It sounds as though you did the very best with what you had and you can’t do any more than that. You are right, you can’t change the things that have happened but you can grow through them. Let that be what comes from this. Your only other choice is to stay stuck, and I expect your mother would not want to be the reason for your unhappiness. You can absolutely train your brain to move on from these issues, and it starts by be really deliberate about what you focus on. Find two or three memories in which you showed kindness or compassion to your mother. A few times a day, spend time focussing on these. At least two minutes. As you think about them, let yourself experience the compassionate, kind, generous person you are, and use these memories as proof. After two minutes these memories will start to cause small changes in your brain. You might not feel different at first, or the difference might not last long, but after a while you will notice a change. It doesn’t just have to be memories of your kindness and generosity with your mother. Any time that you are happy, kind, compassionate, empathic (anything that pushes against your feelings of guilt, stay with the experience for long enough (at least two minutes) for it to stick. This article will explain things for you. It is all based on highly regarded research in neuroscience https://www.heysigmund.com/why-what-you-focus-on-is-what-becomes-powerful-why-your-thoughts-and-feelings-matter/. On the flip side, whenever you focus on the things that cause you to feel guilt, you will be strengthening these connections in your brain. This is what you need to push past and again, it will take a deliberate effort. One way to do this is to wear a band on your wrist. Whenever you feel yourself being pulled into guilt again, flick it and move your focus to something else. You might need to have an anchor phrase or an anchor memory – something that will be easy for you to call up and shift your focus to. It sounds like it’s time to draw a bold heavy underline and move forward. It will take strength and courage – there is comfort in the familiar – but you can do this.
Wow! Spot on I need it……my mother in law tortured me coz of that i got autoimmune disease andnow suffering from alopecia arreta my halfhalf eyelahai had gone bald….llost myeyelash hair and one eyes eyelash ha
I have a toxic Co -worker. She used to be sickly sweet then nasty for no reason at all, from day to day she switches personalities to suit her. I used to interact when she was being nice.
Not anymore, I come back at her in front of everyone in the office. I stare her right in the eye. She told another co-worker I’m mean, I scare her but I’ve never been happier. She doesn’t even try to manipulate me anymore.
All I can say is WOW! Spot On! Exactly what I needed to read. Thank you so much for the insight.
I truly need help with my situation. I have been with my girlfriend for 10 years now, and the other day saw her for who she truly is. She has been accusing me of doing things that I know that i am not doing. It started off as her getting mad that i would play games on my phone, but over the past few days she erupted into a psychotic, hurtful, uncaring person. She has started making things up in her head about me. She is accusing me of sneaking women into our bedroom as we are laying together in bed. I try telling her that she’s not making sense or try proving to her that it isn’t possible with us both laying in bed, and that she would have seen or heard something. She will explode in anger or tell me that im lying. She switches things around to make me feel that Im actually doing these things and that it its hurting her deeply. I finally had enough the other day when out of nowhere she started flipping out on me for more nonsense, this time she went to far and was trying to convince me that the night before i had finally confessed too her that Im in love with my cousin and that her and i have been sleeping together for awhile now, and that Im making her feel horrible everyday. Im not doing any of these things and go on to argue tooth and nail to defend myself against her accusations, which somehow she turns around on me and starts saying that she has seen this happen with her own eyes but didn’t say anything because she is afraid that Im going to get angry or start telling her that she is crazy and sick for believing all this nonsensical garbage that she is doing. I went as far as secretly recording her going of on an incredible rant and argument that she started with me about something else that she is making up. I love this women with every ounce of my being and we have to amazing daughters together, but after showing her the video that i recorded, she continues to do the same things. She said that she knows that the things she is saying really dont make sense to her either, but yet she continues to accuse me of doing things to upset her. I hold my ground and let her know that i honestly think that she knows exactly what she’s doing and that my thought on it is that she doesn’t want to be a mother or girlfriend and that she is doing these things to give her a way to turn her back on her daughters and I without having to feel guilty or taking the slightest responsibility for creating this insanity throughout all of our lives. In turn she became heartless and began degrading me to make me feel that i really an the cause of this all.
I honestly feel that over the past few years that i have been torn apart from myself. I no longer feel like the person that i used to be. Im allowing her negativity to overwhelm my entire being. I once a long time ago, knew who i was and what i wanted. Now its like im consistently giving up on myself. I feel hopeless, and Im afraid that this is soon going to start taking effect on my daughters. At the very least im scared that they are going to blame me for everything because since its my responsibility to protect them and im not. I don’t know what to do if there is anything that i can. Even worse is the fact that they see their mother harassing and belittling me. Im honestly afraid.
Please help me to understand how i can try to help my family. They are everything that i want in life and even though i know that none of this is by my doing, i feel so much guilt about not being able to help my girlfriend, or make my children understand what is really going on. Im stuck…. Im losing myself rapidly and barely have the mental strength to continue with the craziness. Im sry, but appreciate the ability to get this out of my mind and a chance to step back and look at what Im actually feeling, which i have locked away for a very long time now….
All my thanks….
E.S.
Edward I’m sorry that your family is going through this. The sad truth is that if someone is committed to arguing with you or not believing you or seeing you as someone you’re not, there is a limit to what you can do about that. If you’re daughters are witnessing the conflict and the belittling, it will be having an effect on them. It sounds as though you have worked hard to put things right. I can hear how much you want to protect your girls from any harm that can come from the conflict. There is only so much you can do on your own. It sounds as though it is at a point where your relationship needs professional support. It is great that you are able to talk about what’s happening. You sound clear and committed to working through the issues. Would your girlfriend commit to relationship therapy with you? If so, it will be an opportunity to safely explore the issues that are coming between you both and the things that you both need to change. She will also have the opportunity to be heard about what she needs. If she is not prepared to seek counselling to save the relationship, you would have to ask yourself what you are getting from staying.
I think this ia a good and helpful article. I do not, however, understand what seems like a mixed message. Thee article says we can determine the tone used as a sign of toxic behavior in the other on one hand. Yet, we are also told it as a sign of toxic behavior in them when they mention the tone we use. I think before we examine their motives, we should exam our communication to see if we inadvertently did send a mixed message through our tone or posturing.
Another thing that came to mind is that if at all possible, the “toxic” person who is a “different person” from time to time, may have some degree of undiagnosed bipolar disorder (through no fault of their own) for which tjey can seek treatment.
Again, this is, in my oppinion an excellent article. I just think it is important to mention that we must be aware little in life is black & white. And, there are multiple conditions with shared “symptom sets” – So, don’t be too quick to “diagnose” based on any information without seeking more, personalized, information.
I understand the confusion here. The thing to remember is that we can all do some of these things some of the time, but toxic people do most of them most (if not all) of the time. It’s more about the combination of several things. You’ll know a true toxic person from the way you regularly feel diminished when you have been with them. Also, toxic people might act differently to others, but they act in the same way. People with bipolar are no more likely to be toxic than anyone else. Similarly, toxic people are no more likely to be bipolar than anyone else. True toxic people have no intention of changing or of seeking treatment because they don’t believe that anything they are doing is wrong or hurtful. This is in contrast to most people with a mental illness who don’t want to feel the way they do. Hopefully that will make things a little clearer.
When it comes to toxic people, they are everywhere. The first question that needs to be asked of ourselves is this, “Are we being a toxic person to someone else?”
I think it is important to have a good balance in the sense that we do not see other people for who they are without looking at ourselves for who we are, too.
Moving on, I think to a certain degree, we have a responsibility to influence the so-called toxic people to become better people. Unfortunately, not all toxic people can be avoided – such as family members.
I discovered that I myself am a toxic person. After growing up with an alcoholic mother, a perfectionist family and being in an abusive marriage I am struggling to raise my two kids differently.
Whitney I completely understand how difficult it is to shake off a toxic past, but you are already doing that by acknowledging that things can be different. You are already on your way to breaking the toxic cycle. Here is an article that might help you to identify the messages that come from a toxic past and ways to push against them https://www.heysigmund.com/breaking-the-cycle-of-toxic-parenting/.
A few weeks ago, I met this person and we now spend a few hours together everyday. His family is currently not with him. Mine is. He has shared a lot of stuff about his life. I find it hard to talk about mine. It is usual for people to tell me stuff rather than me tell them stuff.
So for the first time I started to share stuff, he was on his phone messaging the entire time. I asked him how would he feel if I did the same thing if he was telling me about his family and he said he wouldn’t feel anything because “it’s not as if we are dating”. I felt guilty and wrote it off.
The next time we had to go to the Mall to get some stuff done for him, and that time too – he spent the entire time which was in an excess of two hours texting. I said it was rude. He again said “if we were on a date” it would be rude otherwise he wouldn’t care about it.
This time even though I felt guilty, I persisted and said that I thought it was rude regardless. He then said that it was his childhood friend and they had just connected on fb. To which I said ok no problem, check with her and ask her if you did this whilst out with her what would she think. He said no it’s ok I understand that it’s wrong and I’m sorry.
And then I said, how come he didn’t think it was rude when he invited me to his room every single time. He didn’t have any answer for that one. He just said you are the neighbour and no one will “gossip”.
The next day I really didn’t want to talk anymore because I was fed up with this constant push and pull and being told that I was “taking things literally” and that I was being “petty” and so on.
When he talks or texts he always says “if you want to talk” or “if you want to meet” – it’s never I want to talk or I want to do this or that.
I’m not the one to give up on being friends and have really tried hard.
He has opened up to me and given the rough time he has had, I always feel that whatever is done is not intentional at all.
But then it falls into a cycle, and I feel he is just meeting for the sake of it.
I’m not sure what to believe anymore and what to do either.
Take for instance this morning, he said if I felt like talking and I said I would come but that I had a migraine. Then after agreeing that we were going to talk, the slant of the conversation just changed to – are you feeling better? Just like that – as if we were never going to talk.
Am I over reacting here and getting all out of hand?
I feel confused and messed up.
There are so many confusing mixed messages here so I’m not surprised you feel the way you do. It is always rude to be messaging someone while your in a conversation with someone else, unless of course there is something completely urgent that needs immediate attention. Otherwise, the people you are with deserve your full attention. You didn’t get this. It’s very early in the relationship so it might be that the trust hasn’t developed enough or the boundaries around what is acceptable and unacceptable have yet to be negotiated. At any rate, the clearest indicator is how you feel in the relationship. It doesn’t mean this person is toxic, it might just mean that the combination of the both of you isn’t great for you. The clue is what happens when you talk about what you need – are you acknowledged or ignored? Is this relationship able to give you what you need or do you always leave feeling a little sadder? These are the things to think about, and it might be something that becomes clearer with time.
Hey Sigmund: your writing back is appreciated.
Just to explain that the texting took place the entire 2-3 hours till he realized I wasn’t saying anything. He came up and asked why I looked “grumpy”. As much as I believe he knew what the matter was, it was explained to him nonetheless. Then the “dating” comment was made. I found that to be an ugly comment and said that too.
Another time when I was overwhelmed with things we kept texting via text text finally I said why couldn’t he just come and talk to which he said he didn’t think I wanted to see him in person and then he carried on texting.
Then I asked once again and again and then we met and asked what the problem was with me wanting to talk. He said he thought I wanted a shoulder to cry on and that he believed that I wanted to physically put my head on his shoulder.
Again “if you were my gf” I’d come and get you. Most people don’t want to be seen when they are crying.
So I explained that i like to get things out as opposed to being miserable in the dark so to speak.
He keeps saying I should call, text, see him anytime. Yet I feel I’m the one doing all the talking or texting.
And when I say you too can do the same then it is always followed by “sure IF you want me too”
It’s always projecting his wanting to do something on to me. Then why tell me things about your family? Why spend time? Why say we should spend more time?
Then when we do spend time, the texting. He did apologize many times but deep down I still feel that he doesn’t see it as being not ok. And that is why I feel things are resolved and yet not resolved.
I’m not trying to make him look bad. I care lots and it isn’t my intention to make him sound horrid.
Then I wrote to you online the same day we were meant to meet and where it felt that he changed the slant of the conversation.
As petty as it sounds – I waited to talk all morning. Finally in the evening he called and asked if I was ok and I told him that I had waited all morning. He just said he was busy and I should drop him a text. I did not. I felt crappy.
The next day he texted saying he was back and that we should talk. I couldn’t get around to it because the comments of “dating”, the texting, the feeling of being empty even after spending time made me upset. I was even more upset for not talking to him. He kept at it for almost 2 hours and finally wrote back and said he would never text or call again.
I froze. I am frozen.
Two days later he texts again asking if I want to go with him because he had to collect something. As if the morning and his saying he won’t text or call again never happened.
It’s been a week and I can’t text him back or call him. I’d like to. But I am in a state of flux.
He has been through a lot and so have I. Basically I feel he is a decent person but his actions and his words are conflicting.
He is not seen on his whatsapp for days. As much as I want to talk, I can’t understand why he is always waiting for me to resolve things.
I am willing to and would like him to make an effort instead of changing in a split second. Makes me feel the time spent sharing stuff was worthless.
If you are feeling this way, the amswer is simple to walk away. Create distace at the very least sometimes we understand the power of distance.
If after some distance and he is still making you feel like this then find a new friend.
Also to note you are putting his concerns and needs above your own. Remember people will just take what you give them. There are only a few that have the power to ‘reel themselves in’. If he isn’t one of them, find a new friend.
Freedom & Joy: your comments are appreciated.
Yes I did create distance not because I wanted him to come running but because I was hurt. I remember him waiting for me to get out and talk to him. And then he just flipped and made the “I will never text or call you again” comment. So I ended up feeling worse because I felt guilty that I didn’t just get out and that as he said, I didn’t give him a chance to explain.
The following days when I would arrive home in the car, he made sure he would come out – see that I saw him and then – just turn his back and walk away.
Or if he saw me from the window, he’d just look at me and then look away.
The “dating” comments made me annoyed and it was expressed immediately.
He is the only person I talk to as it is difficult to talk with my husband.
This is my husbands personality – he has called me so many filthy names through the years and has physically assaulted me several times – I was pregnant one of the times when he put his hands around my neck and threatened to kill me when I said I was taking the children and was going to leave him. Back when I use to try to talk to him he would mock me – roll his eyes – look at his imaginary watch – yawn etc. When I confront/try to talk to him about things he has done and said – he calls me a liar and argues instead of talking or trying to resolve anything. He makes wild statements that he never did or said any of the things he did – or he twists everything into a different version and tells me I am crazy – his latest is I am too sensitive. He never ever apologizes for anything he does because he always defends all of his actions – he actually has a name for himself – he calls himself “Mr. Perfect”- he always says this about himself -“cause I am perfect”. I am not kidding – I couldn’t make this stuff up – it’s like watching and listening to a horror story! But…he holds me responsible for everything. Nothing and I mean nothing is his fault. He loves to embarrass me I front of other people – he undermines me constantly especially in public – it makes him feel like “a man”. He is very lazy if I ask him for help he becomes very angry and accuses me of ordering him around and trying to control him – when all I wanted after working a full time job was help with the kids. He talks in a continual condescending tone which he denies doing even while he is doing it – he says it’s all in my mind. He is overly close to his mother and his birth family – they treat me like dirt and he does not care. They had a professional “family” photo taken with his parents and his brothers and sisters only. Our children and I were not allowed in their “family photo”. His mother would call me all the time telling me how her son belongs to her and her family and I am nothing and not a part of it. Sometimes I would not even tell my husband because all he would do is get mad at me and side with his mommy so why bother. He never protects me or stands up for me. One of his sisters came to our home one night to cause real trouble – I went to get my husband for help – he was laying in bed in the fetal position pretending to be asleep – I knew if I insisted he get up he would have knocked me through a wall so I had to call the police to get his sister off our property. The next morning he refused to talk to me – all he said was he was the reason he did not go outside the night before to protect his sister as he felt she could handle herself – he makes zero sense – protect her – his sister – not me – his sister. He left me alone out there waiting for the police to come while his crazy sister is yelling screaming making a total scene on our street on a summer night – all the neighbors were out and all the while my “manly husband” is in bed pretending to be asleep. He is a coward and a bully. When he is out in public he is so over polite to other people it is embarrassing. When I am sick he refuses to help me – I had a very sick pregnancy he stood right in front of me and said “Listen you – I am not doing anything for you” and walked away. He told me I am not allowed to talk to him about any thing – my feelings nothing. He came up to me one day and told me in a very proud tone that when ever I ask him to do anything around the house that he purposely lies to me and says he will do it just so I will “go away” – he was proud of this! He was actual proud of himself that I now know that I cannot believe anything he says! He is angry at me because I stopped making his happiness my responsibility like I use to. I no longer have anything to do with him. We live in the same house but that is where it starts and stops. All he does after work is stare at the tv and eat. I am “polite” to him – that is it – that is all. I have moved on with my life without him – I had to in order to survive. He is perfectly content in his own little world that he has created that never included me.
well done for having the strength to recognise he doesn’t aid your growth and happiness and moving on. More a message for others reading as it sounds you have recovered well, but I would say forgiveness also helps to move on positively.
The most accurate article on toxic people I have ever read! I was lucky enough to get rid of my toxic ‘friend’ 15 days ago (not that im counting lol). Its been a blessing but has left me needing counseling to try to move on from what happened (was a VERY nasty ending to the ‘friendship’). I was completely broken from what this person did to me but every day it gets better. Its hard when you still have to see the person regularly though!
I hope the toxic person who was in my life gets the help they need and lives a happy life. There is something wrong with someone who feels the need to tear others down to feel better about themselves.
Yes toxic people do need help and is a form of bullying projecting what they intrinsically hate about themselves, on to others.
You have the right approach to wish them well, bless them as you move on in life and form better happier friendships. Toxic people repeat their toxic friendships. I should know, I had a friend who I walked away from 15 years ago and still I hear stories of how she is treating others. It is a kind of mental illness.
Omg just read that whole thing really reminds me of my x girlfriend tocix
Hi there I have been reading this as I had to Google some type of a resolution or reassurance that this is happening to me . I have been in a relationship for 6 years now 2 kids and I seriously don’t know how I do it . We have so many lovely memories , holidays and lots more , but there is a serious issue that he just doesn’t seem to see that a lot of the time turns into him telling me I will pay for it . He loves to organise things and live or pretend to live a very expensive life that we cannot afford although we do so much I always feel bad because if I was on my own I wouldn’t be able to do this . This is where everything start he always names the things he does ( he says “I run out of fingers when I count how much things I do for you”) everything he doesn’t is for me not for our family he always want to be thanked even says I should be on my knees it upsets me because when he names everything he does I just feel like a fool because it looks like I’ve just been sitting at home all day . There’s times where it gets physical and a lot of the time I can’t handle it anymore then I think about tomorrow that’s there’s another day and kids need to prepared for school and that the house is a mess and that everybody needs to eat so I just brush it of and there goes another day . Everything is always my fault and I never do anything or do anything right he tells the kids “mummy has started it and now I have to teach her a lesson ” . The argument never start aggressive as long as I agree to everything and I don’t disobey whenever I say no to something or I don’t agree that’s when its gets rough. He is a loving man but I don’t know how long I can carry on with this other person pops up . I can see all the things above is exactly like him although I think he turns this to be more abusive then just toxic . I’m only 21 and I am an educated beautiful woman he will never take that from me , I wish I could just walk away but I just think about the kids and future way to much then I think about my self.
The key is how you feel in the relationship and if there is physical abuse, things have gone too far. Don’t underestimate the stress that will be falling upon your children if they know you are being physically and emotionally hurt. The greater problem, it sounds like, is that your husband doesn’t see anything wrong with what he is doing. There is so much wrong with what he is doing. You may be able to hide this from your children for a while if they are little, but kids are smart and they pick up on everything and I would have to wonder, aside from so many other things, what lessons are they learning about relationships? Can I ask you to think about one question: If either of your children were in this relationship, would you want them to stay or to go?
M-
If a man lays his hands on you in anyway violent, he is not a man. He is a coward little boy in a man’s body. It may be all that you know, or he knows, it may be easy for you to justify the behavior for him, or for him to justify it, but that does not make it right in anyway. Speaking from the perspective of a 31 year old man who has been in relationships where I have been the receiver of abuse by a few different women, from severe physical to verbal abuse that made me feel less than human, and not once did I ever strike back. Men are raised not to harm women.
To me, your relationship sounds more than toxic, it honestly sounds abusive. It shouldn’t matter if he runs out of both his hands and his toes, “counting the things” he does for you. If he cared for you and truly loves you, what he “does for you” should never ever ever ever be an issue. Him berating you in that way is a manipulation technique to break you down, causing you to feel hopeless, incapable of being loved and loving yourself, makes you feel like you are less than him, so that you feel unworthy of better things, even of happiness, and it appears to be working because you “feel like a fool.”
Well, You are not a fool. You are a SMART, YOUNG, BEAUTIFUL, EDUCATED Woman who is WORTHWHILE and your life has VALUE.
When he tells the kids that, “mom needs to be taught a lesson.” All I can think is he needs a few lessons taught to him. How to treat a lady, or how to be a father and not manipulate children so he can feel like he has a supporting peanut gallery behind him.
He shouldn’t be belittling you in front of your children. People tend to argue in relationships, sometimes voices even get raised, problems come up. How you deal with said problems is one of the defining factors of a healthy relationship. He shouldn’t be berating or belittling you in general, at all, period.
Remember, there is verbal and physical abuse.
A house can get messy fast, especially with kids. It’s a constant tornado; Newton’s Third Law, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Cleaning happens, kids play, messes get made, hours of the day get lost, and at the end of the day you’re still a good person, even with dishes in the sink.
Does he help you clean up toys, do laundry, dishes, get the kids ready for school, make the doctor appointments, grocery shop, etc…? Or does he still think it is the 1930’s?
Going to work and paying bills doesn’t make you a good man, or good father if you are doing and teaching misogynistic, abusive, manipulative behaviors.
Children are these magical spongy mirrors. They absorb everything they see and hear and reflect it back out. Kids learn how to treat their companions and being in relationships a lot from observing their parental units. If you have a son and he grows up watching his mother be verbally and physically abused, not treated with respect, then he will be wired to think that is acceptable behavior in a relationship. If you have a daughter she will think its acceptable behavior to be abused, or be the abuser.
If he gets rough with you now, what’s going to happen when your children are older; or even now for say. What if he gets angry at them with the “All the things he does for them.” attitude he has and gets rough with them. You may say that he will never get physical with them, but I’m assuming there was a time when you thought that about yourself.
Money runs out but family lasts forever.
You shouldn’t be forced outside of your budget because he insists on having an egotistical material life instead of one full of sentiment, compassion, a vast appreciation for you and the children, gratitude, and UNCONDITIONAL love. It is not your fault that he loses his cool when you bring up financial things. In fact it’s NEVER your fault EVER when he loses his cool, people are in charge of their own emotions.
Everything in my gut screams Sociopath or Narcissist. Both very toxic, both seemingly with no “fixing” no matter how hard you try; or how bad you want to make the change happen, or no matter how long you try for. Even if you think you are just one step away from that “Eureka!” moment; that “change” will never happen until he is ready to make that change, until he hits a bottom and does it for himself. No more walking on eggshells. No more listening to him say I’m sorry I will change. No more of you apologizing to him because he makes you feel like its your fault even though you were trying to bring up how he hurt your feelings, or just bringing things up that don’t bode with your moral compass.
When being abused or around someone toxic, depression can be right around the corner. Being tired all the time, a feeling of low self worth, social isolation from your friends and family are just a few of the side factors of depression.
The walking on egg shells feeling of, “I have to go with what he says or get yelled at.”, being manipulated to feel like a bad mother when you know you’re not, being made to feel like you couldn’t make it without him, getting belittled all the time, is all part of the manipulation control system he uses against you.
You said you feel bad because if you were on your own you wouldn’t be able to do some of the things you do with help from him. I understand how having a partner can make things easier on you financially and even help with the kids.
Ask yourself, is it doing the children more damage seeing you two fight like that. You’re 21, been in a relationship with him for 6 years, so pretty much since you were 15. That’s a pretty good commitment, and that time was not wasted, your experiences were real. I can understand why its so hard for you to walk away, but I promise you, it will get easier. Its hard to step out of comfort zones even if they are not that comfortable. We get used to routines, break the routine and those things that you imagine unimaginable will quickly become imaginable. I promise you there is someone out there that will not abuse you. You should never put up with that, it can get really scary, and can even get fatal, you have your life and your children’s lives at stake.
I will leave you with a metaphor I wrote when trying to help a buddy through a hard time…
In the Book Of Life, there many smaller books that make up your story. The relationship section is full of joy and sorrow, and ends in bittersweet melancholy. Every time you start a new relationship, you begin a new chapter, whenever there is a breakup, the chapter ends. Like all books you can go back to an old chapter, but eventually it will always end the same way. When you do find that special someone and begin writing that final chapter, it will be filled with stories of love, happiness, joy, and even a little sorrow. It will go on until you are both old, grey, and dead.
I told you it was bitter sweet.
EMPOWER Yourself.
Life is AMAZING and so are YOU,
You are STRONG,
You Deserve RESPECT,
You are COURAGEOUS,
You are LOVEABLE,
You are WORTHWHILE,
You are BRAVE,
LOVE and TRUST Yourself.
BELIEVE
He is abusive and if not addressed will only get worse. Easier for me to sit here and say leave him but if he doesn’t aid your growth and happiness he is not the one for you. Your kids are picking up more than you realize too.
Pls do something as you are still in a frame of mind to see your own worth, before this goes too.
Intervention by another family member who can talk to him about how you feel, at best, counselling at worst, of which he has to obviously agree to.
If he is as loving he will want to do what’s best for you and his kids.
I had a boss she was so toxic and negative about whatever we do! We were never right. I was working for her for 8 long years. It use to make me feel, whatever I am it’s because of her finally I AM OUT not working with her anymore.
I have a very good friend who is toxic to a T!
She sucks the life out of me at times!
Toxic people do apologise,that doesn’t mean they are not toxic.I also think you are missing some other points.What i feel is toxic people require counselling ASAP.
If toxic people apologise, it is generally a manipulative tack to further their own position and their own control over the person or the relationship. It is rarely for the good of the other or the good of the relationship. Of course toxic people require counselling, but counsellors are not magicians. Nobody can change anyone who is unwilling to change and who does not see a problem with their own behaviour. The whole point is that toxic people do not see their own behaviour as a problem and because of this, are not open to changing or doing something differently. Toxic people will sit in counselling and will not take anything in. They will argue, justify and defend their behaviour, regardless of the damage that behaviour is causing to the people around them.
I had a school friend who was so hot and cold. Even though people say she is destructive she still gets all the attention. She always has a strong point of you but nobody ever confronts her. I decided one day that I would not chase her after one of her blow outs. She has since unfriended me on Facebook and spends a lot of time ticking mutual friends post, even though a couple she clearly did not like. I have moved on but sometimes get a little angry that some mutual friends still rally round her, like they are afraid.
My h would apologize but it wwas alwaysafter quite ssome time, and just “I’m sorry”. Hewwould NEVER say, “I’m sorry for____ and I was wrong”. Tgetr were times when what hr did reallywas aawful and tthat’swhen u would hear “iI’m sirrt”, but hr never took ownership if his hurtfulactions, and left me feeling guilty iif he had to apologize. I wasbsi desperate that often I would be the one to apologize to hum even though he was the one doing the offending.
My husband finally agreed to go to counseling. When I brought up an issue since our last session, he completely blew up, said I was attacking him, and threatened to leave the session. I was merely intending to be specific to an issue and try to resolve it with the counselor. I was shocked about how he almost lost it, I felt so helpless and a loss of hope. Needless to say, he blew off counseling as though he didn’t need it.
Wow! This sums my ex husband up perfectly. We were married 17 years and after his father past away he just didn’t want to be married anymore. We have two children 15 and 12 and for the most part is a good father…but I often ask myself, “how good of a father can he really be to just walk out and not even try to make the relationship work.” I ask him that once and his response was, “Why should I try to work it out for the children when I have no feelings for you at all”? (Definitely something you want to hear from your husband of 17 years). I’ve become very involved in the church, volunteering anyway I can and just trying to do for others as much as possible as that is where I find my joy. So many things you have said has happened since we separated and now divorced. He says such hurtful things and will not even let me get a word in when we have a discussion…he talks over me. He is so lost and as you said I don’t even think he realizes he has done anything wrong. One of the absolute hardest things I’ve had to do is refrain from talking negatively about him….bc of knowing how crappy he has done his family…he has an affair while we were married, he has seen girls since we separated/divorced and even snuck one in while my children were at his house..not to mention she put a picture of them up together where everytime the children go to his house they see it…how can anyone be so insensitive?? But I have noticed since I’ve quit talking negatively the last few months my kids have grown so much closer to me and I see now how important it is just to bite my tongue bc eventually they will know the truth and who the toxic parent is. I am as nice to him as I am to everyone else and get he continues to be angry with me. How can he be angry at me when he is the one who walked out and he is the one who has done such hurtful things…I don’t think I’ll ever understand that. Thank you so much for helping me see the actions of a toxic person and that I’m not the evil person he portrays be out to be…I truly believe he just enjoys hurting me and maybe bc my life is so much better than when we were together and his is still not good…thank you so much!
You are being exactly the mother your children need you to be. I know how hard it must be not to speak badly of your husband in front of your children but it will be making all the difference to them. The truth is whatever type of man he is, he is the only father your children have and for all of his faults they will love him. They will make up their own minds in time. Your kids have grown closer to you because you are safe for them – they don’t have to feel guilty about loving their dad, they don’t have to defend him and most of all it is clear to them that you love them more than you want to hate him. I know how much strength and courage that takes. Keep doing what you’re doing. You’re amazing and your kids will be so much happier and healthier for it.
You just described my life…..